popoeliz

14# huit This is pathetic.

If you acts like that and thinks like that, what hope do we have to fit and adapt into a different society.

If you cannot respect people that are different from you, how can you expect other people to respect yourself.

You can disagree with some behaviours or some actions that may be typical in a group of people. But blatantly stereotype the whole race of people is outright pathetic.
It is even more pathetic and stupid considering most likely you are also a Chinese.

popoeliz

22# huit Being a Chinese is your heritage, it has history that you should be proud of (e.g. art, music) and also ashame of (e.g. annexation of Tibet). I think to dis-associate or deny your heritage because you do not want to associate with "stereotypical mainland China born Chinese behaviour" is pathetic.

I think that is pathetic on throwing away such a rich and colourful heritage for nothing. Or more specifically, Chinese has American born chinese, Malayasian born chinese, Australian born chinese, Hongkie..... they are all Chinese, not just mainland China Chinses.

Denying one's heritage just because you are shameful of some "stereotypical mainland china Chinese" behaviour.  What other word can I use to describe such attitude but pathetic, it is your right to do so. I cannot say it is right or wrong on doing so but I know that throwing away something that is very valuable for nothing (just for the sake of inaccurate definition of Chinese). I think pathetic is a good description. I am not trying to pxxx you off. I would get very upset if you say that I am not a Chinese because I am not born in mainland China nor accept communism.

Personally, I don't believe in "stereotypical mainland china Chinese". I have made very good friend with Chinese who is from mainland china. I found they are generous and good nature. Their behaviour is definitely NOT so call "stereotypical mainland china Chinese". I also have neighbour who fit with "stereotypical mainland china chinese". I believe we should judge everyone by their action, not where they come from nor skin colour.

popoeliz

24# norman.ho I think we "can" choose our nationality. e.g. you choose to be a Australian citizen (I presume). But our heritage is Chinese, which we cannot choose but at best deny. We can also sometime choose which country we are loyal to. e.g i choose to be loyal to Australian government but not communist China government. Not loyal doesn't means not following their law in their country. (may be, I have offended some law on criticize Chinese government on a lot of their issues/policy).

My kids are Australian born chinese who cannot read nor write chinese (unfortunately), but they are still chinese. Well, their thinking, value, dress code, their friends cannot be more "Australian" (another unfortunately according to me) but they are still chinese. This group of young people also has totally different stereotypical behaviour and thinking pattern.

popoeliz

It seems like the discussion becomes a bit honkie centric. Please think about the other chinese, CBC, ABC, Maylaisan born chinese, singaporian.... Disregarding the nationality, and which country they are living in, they are all Chinese.
Hongkie is just one special case out of so many. The logic doesn't work as because you are a hongkie, you are not a chinese.
Please note: there are at least 3-4 chinese government. The nationals from these country are typically quite different stereotypically. (probably the education system and different law and governance). Communist China, Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong ( as SAR even it is under communist china). I am sure you can find quite unique difference within these groups.

popoeliz

Please note:

if someone say he is a Chinese national, I normally interpret as he may be from Taiwan or Mainland China.

Taiwanese has separatist. They want to establish Taiwan as independent nations, or native native Taiwanese... That is a far more interesting question.
Can a Tibetan feel offended when you call him Chinese? (the answer is obvious) Can some of the minority groups in China nowadays choose to deny themselves as Chinese? (e.g. Manchurian) That one is too hard for me, I cannot give a definite yes or no answer.

華裔 as far as I can understand mean "Chinese born". I think this term is generally used in the 2nd generation of chinese born in a different country.

I think the key point is if you are ethnically Chinese, you are Chinese. No but, no if or may be...
Similarly a statement like "anyone that is not from communist china is not a Chinese" is just as absurd.

Now, how you feel about something is another matter. e.g. you feel offended when you are reference as a Chinese.

A politician may say not keeping political promise is political astuteness, to me it is a lie.
e.g. The Australian Labour prime minister promised that there is no carbon tax before the election but she set up carbon tax after the election to secure a minority government with Green party.
To her it is political astuteness, to me she is a bloody liar, no if no but no may be.

popoeliz

I think Chinaman is used with derogative intonation. It is not acceptable normally for publication or editorial or opinion section of newspaper. You have used this term on "people from mainland china" in a derogative sense. (but not on yourself). This may be offensive to some.

Similarly, Hongkie is used with derogative intonation by Singaporean or Malayasian, especially used in Australia on people from Hong Kong. My only excuse is I have used a derogative term on my group of people. It is my twisted sense of humour, more or less as black people making jokes against black people is on the borderline of acceptable.

You can say that my excuse is pretty lame. If I have offended you on using Hongkie, I would apologize.

popoeliz

"So are you saying there should be no distinction between ethnicity and nationality, regardless of an individual's personal experience, s/he is require carry any burden and stigma s/he did not create, and therefore what shapes a person's outlook in life the most is not as important as expectations set for him/her by others. "
I am saying ethnicity as Chinese, does not mean nationality is "Chinese". (note: I think Chinese is safe to use it as ethnicity, but not nationality) Just as ethnicity being Jewish does not automatically being Israelites. I think a long of confusion and offence are related to mixing Chinese means mainland china Chinese exclusively.
I am referring to mixing ethnicity and nationality is pathetic or sad, choose your flavour or wording.